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Topic, Game "BLockoban"

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gameinsky 8 years ago
  The second official pack idea was suggested to JP, the results are visible and are known as "levelpacks"

Unfortunately, JP is too busy in real life, so I'd be good if JP could "chose" someone to be the second official pack leader.
Ferrari12 8 years ago
  If I were to make such a pack in JG2, here's how I'd do it.
1. Assemble a team of 5 people (Me and Pof will be two of them)
2. Tell the community to post on/notify the team about any excellent levels they might find.
3. Once or twice a month, us in the team will take a look at all the good levels we and the community've found, and then make a list of those we think could be in the pack.
4. Send the list to JP.
5. Add the levels that got his approval.

No rules conserning the size of the pack, or how many levels one creator can have in the pack, or how many different creators' levels we'll have to put in.

Of course this won't work as smooth in BB as in JG2. JG2 has a smaller community, fewer levels and no level categories to worry about. That's my current plan, but constructive feedback and suggestions are always welcome.
oldmtnguy 8 years ago
  Let me start by saying I was all for this idea when it started, and I still am. But now I have some concerns over how the plan has evolved. I really like the idea of a second set of official levels, but we cannot decide to do this on our own. We are not the game creator nor have any business calling a level official or even acknowledged without jp's permission and approval.
The pack idea is a fine alternative, but it would need a different title. Say Players Favorites for instance. And we would need to come up with a voting system to choose the submissions. A pack containing levels chosen by Jyxz or Simon would be either Jyxz's Favorites or Simon's Favorites.
I agree that a fair system to choose is going to be difficult because of personal preferences and the friend factor. We are all highly intelligent players and I respect everyone's input. So let's continue to discuss this and come up with a firm proposal that I can present to jp.
If it ends up as a pack, jp has already told me that he will be able to place a link somewhere on the game page like he offered to do for the difficulty level packs when they are finished. So keep the comments coming and let's hear what you all have to say.
Jyxz 8 years ago
  I dont think the rating system is very reliable LMR but yeah of course if anyone thinks a level should be in it speak up!
lmr 8 years ago
  The first criteria should the highest rated levels. As obiviously they represent the best of that particular style. Also, the task should not be limited to one person, as each player has design/style preferences.
Perhaps several people from the upper echelon could submit thier top 25? 50? choices. There would be an overlap of choices which would create an overall list.
Jyxz 8 years ago
  Yeah "EXTRA" dummy blocks meaning blocks you dont use etc. etc. if they are 100% necessary it would be better if they had targets too but ya I am saying blocks that don't need to be used at all to attain a solution.
CamoDragoon 8 years ago
  @Jyxz that sounds great :)

About the dummy blocks though, I have a question, what if the dummy blocks are needed?
For example, my level Galaxy Dome (BLockoban) (I don't think it's official material anyway, but as an example)
In that case the dummy blocks are needed and placing goals for them would not only constrict the solutions but make it excessively hard to find the right way to solve it, and therefore I think it's better to have dummy blocks rather than goals. If this situation arises, are you just going examine it on a case-by-case basis?
Jyxz 8 years ago
  Simon if you want to make the Pack, I will definitely add a ton of my input.

For example I was thinking 100 levels total, with 6 kids 12 easy 24 medium 48 hard, then 10 slots we should have a level making contest for while we are putting the first 90 together... The kids levels important to have 1 example of each game mechanic (icy blocks, attached blocks). The easy levels should just be any really good easy levels that deserve it, on this I would ask people put forth a few of their own levels they would like to see featured. The medium levels same deal, but to get started I'd recommend a lot yours, Camo's and a few of Ferrari's levels. For the first half of the hard levels I'd like to see a few of the older classics from Jos and myself then a lot of newer stuff, Oldmtnguy prolly knows the more recent stuff way better then myself. Then the second half of the hard we need Toughman and Murat, I know murat doesn't speak much English, but if they could go threw especially their own levels and any levels that they actually consider hard I think should probably be featured.

A few general rules:
1) Absolutely no extra dummy blocks in any level.
2) All levels should be able to be solved in under 80 moves. Tedious can be fun when your bored but for an "official" level I'd prefer not to see it.
3) Any level with excessive attached blocks will be subject to scrutiny, because a level should be clever for its own merit not JUST because it has attached blocks. As has been shown before its possible to make a solvable level that no human will be able to. This is not an attack at murat since the majority of his levels are FANTASTIC but I think we all know some of them are a little excessive, (for example his level 400 =P).
4) Although it's hard to do because there will be disagreements I want to make it so each level his harder then all the previous. Level 1 <level 2-99 < level 100.
5) We will try to have at least one level from each active designer.

Let me know!
AK 8 years ago
  No, I mean the new evaluation category.
Ferrari12 8 years ago
  No, a pack with official-worthy levels, like a 2nd generation official level pack, with a link from the game's main page.

Official-worthy levels = leves that woud've been official if the game's creator could've bothered to add more official levels.
AK 8 years ago
  Oh, like levels that are accepted, but that you can still edit?
Ferrari12 8 years ago
  If you don't want to read the enormous messgaes below, I'll try to sum it up.

Jyxz, suggested a new evaluation category, between "accepted" and "to be edited". Then I said it would be a good idea, but instead, put it between "accepted" and "official". After that LMR and Jyxz came up with some other suggestion, and then we had the idea of "2nd Generation Official levels". After that OMR suggested maybe put those 2nd generation levels in a pack. Lastly I had some more suggestions in my post yesterday, which Simon has now told his opinions about.

I hope that made sense :)
AK 8 years ago
  I missed a lot... 0.0

What are we talking about?
SimonM 8 years ago
  Yes, links to the packs are very nice, they should do that too with category packs.
Jyxz 8 years ago
  @azz, yes.
azz 8 years ago
  Hendomino (BLockoban)
Is this level possible?
Ferrari12 8 years ago
  How about suggestion 2, then?
SimonM 8 years ago
  I normally have loads of time, so I could do some time consuming things. Anyway I think a "second official" pack would be cool.
@ferrari No awards needed.
Ferrari12 8 years ago
  A pack might actually be a very good idea. The admins fo the game (Or any peron(s) they've selcted to) could update the pack when they and the community thinks a level is deserving to be there.

I also have some other suggestions:
1. An award for creating a set ammount of acknowledged levels, e.g. Create 50? acknowledged levels; 150? EXP.
2. A link to the packs from the games' start page, to make it as visible to evryone as possible. Maybe also links on the BL main page.

If that dosn't require an enourmous cr*pload of work, I think that would work really well.

But somebody will have to notify JP about all this :)
CamoDragoon 8 years ago
  @OMR that might be the best solution to this, as I agree that making a new category would be really strenuous for JP (especially compared to your idea).
You also have to think that there are many other things JP could improve on other games, rather than just focusing on Blockoban. For example, curves in Rolling Turtle are rarely "correct" and there's many other things that JP could add to the interface of Jump Gear 2 as well.

I agree with all of the previous points stated, but I think that maybe OMR's idea would be the best.
And to add to that, maybe all the current officials could also be in that pack if you wanted to just make an official set compounded by the players? It could be continuously updated as new levels that deserved official status came along.
oldmanrob 8 years ago
  Why not do "Blockoban Official Second Generation" (OMG)in a pack? Jyxz could start the pack and people could pm him suggestions what levels they would like to see in.
azz 8 years ago
  Long comment overlode!
*Head asplodes*
chris3000 8 years ago
  We should call this game Blockoban 3.0, :P
gundu 8 years ago
  Now, imagine this situation with less mature members... in another game... xD

Ok, Seriously

@Jyxz, I know what you mean, It's a nice idea but I don't really feel it. I mean, If we add a new category and add BB levels in it, We'll have to do the same with all the other games. My point is that the levels which have been created between the period of official levels and the period of the ''Acknowledged'' category won't really have the same attention as the newest levels. And we still have to wait for Jp for his answer.

Just imagine to play and check over 10000 of levels (all games combined, Even though I guess there is a lot more) and make your decision if it fits in the new category will be overkill. That was my opinion, Not that I am against your idea, But just a lot of work ahead.
Ferrari12 8 years ago
  A second set of officials would be GREAT!!!

I can't really say anything but that it's a wonderful idea in every way, and that we should have that on many other games as well, JG2, RT and P4M (I know it's a new game, but many of the officials aren't so good) just to mention some.
oldmtnguy 8 years ago
  Wow what a thought. Blockoban Official Second Generation!!!
Thanks Jyxz and lmr. I think that is a wonderful idea if we combine both your thoughts and create a second set of official levels. I also realize that this will have to be seriously thought through and brought up to jp because after all it is his baby and there would be a lot of work to go through the 4000+ levels we have now. But I think it could breathe new life into the game and give a chance to the new and current designers did get a little bit of extra acknowledgment for their efforts. I really think that this could stimulate the game.
A second thought about a new set of official levels is to start fresh and make it a contest. But I realized that would eliminate the opportunity to make any previously submitted excellent levels eligible.
So for now let's just throw this thought out here and I would like to get some feedback. And if things work out then I will take the ideas to jp.
lmr 8 years ago
  Jyxz, Great point. There are times I do not have time to play every new level. What I do is look at who designed it, open it, guesstimate how difficult or timely it will be for me to play. Then later if I have more time I go back to the others. I guess that is why I only have about 3200 levels solved! I do agree it would be fun to have a second set of official levels. Yet, I wonder how much headache that would cause regarding rank, exp. points and level each person earns.
Perhaps, after I have figured out how to solve all 249 official levels, and optimized my scores on them, I'll want to expand beyond solving a couple of great new levels a day or designing some.

AND to those who do not like my artistic, tedious levels that require a huge number of moves. If you don't like that style...don't play it. You can always tell before starting because I always post a score before the level is accepted.
This is a great game. Let's all just enjoy all the parts we like and remain challengrd by the rest.
Jyxz 8 years ago
  @oldmtnguy Sorry I think my idea was misunderstood. I know exactly the delema your talking about and honestly if a level is solvable players should have access to solve it, but right now the only easy access is to make it accepted. I understand how much work you put in for all these levels to be available to us, and thank you.

I was not saying that other people should be able to edit levels I was saying I think SINCE there are no more official levels we need a new category. Honestly I think everyone knows not all levels are created equally so I was saying we need some way to allow people to refine levels while other people can solve them and if a level is really good it needs "acknowledgement". This is also really important to me since I have limited time to play but I really don't want to miss out on the levels that are REALLY REALLY good because there are a lot of meh levels. But I know as it is its unfair to say dont accept the meh levels cause there are plenty of people who want to solve levels I consider too easy and often tedious. For example I think we would both agree that Murat and Toughman are on a whole different level when it comes to level creating but niether of them have an "official" level. Is this because they are poor designers? No it's because JP decided no more official levels because he doesn't want to scare off new players, which while completely reasonable leaves us the now much larger community in a jam. I know it would be work for JP but I think this is why a new category between accepted and official, Acknowledged is necessary. I hope I made my point more clear. My idea has nothing at all to do with trusted members and I know where you are coming from on that, why on earth would people want to be a trusted member anyway? I guess I am but I have never had to use the powers I suppose. Anyway thanks and sorry for being lengthy.
chris3000 8 years ago
  I believe we've reached 100 pages of levels.
ToughMan 8 years ago
  I tend to agree with Simon, OMG and LMR guys. I have never used the TM (apart from my nickname) privilege. I do agree you jasper that when you edit you almost always get new ideas. I have to point however that this is exactly the reason why TMs should be limited. Not to cause chaos by re-editing multiple times a certain level. I'd rather have them improve their ideas on NEW and fresh levels. Because of the series of latest uploads and the variety (some of them are quite tedious if you ask me) one should feel very comfortable and happy with a level to upload it after finishing it quite a few times (like LMR has very correctly pointed out). Just imagine myself going back to my first levels and reedit them just because i found sth new, what chaos I would cause to admins having to reset the scores (cause I cant reset them myself and frankly I dont want to) as if they dont have enough things to worry about (and it only just me, right).

To sum it up it is always better to count on the responsibility of all designers to work hard on their levels and make them challenging, fun, unique before uploading rather than give them the right to re-edit after. I feel for OMG and all other admins who really have to work on hundreds of levels every day. Nice job buddy.

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jp 11 years ago
  sound on / off added (burfy's feedback).
16 official levels now. All levels are great. I must say I'm a big fan of Psychotronic's levels (thx Psycho). When a level is "only" accepted, it doesn't mean it will not be official one day, it's just I'm not sure for now.
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