Topic, Game "BLockoban"

  Thanks to Elizea, gameinsky and Simon for the kind words, and to all of you site members for your support over the years. As an administrator, sometimes this job can be frustrating. at times I have been told that I am too critical, slow, self absorbed or dictator like. I have just passed my third year anniversary as an administrator and between playing levels and evaluating them have put in thousands of hours of time on this site. The great majority of these hours have been fulfilling and fun, but occasionally metered with some periods of frustration. I hope that I have succeeded in keeping this game interesting and enjoyable. And intend to keep participating as long as I am able.

edit: And thanks to you designers, for the recent flood of new levels. I am trying to get to them and catch up as quickly as possible.

  'as forgotten just like the rest of BL' I think there are more games that bursts with activity, but yeah OMG does a fantastic job here!

  Agreed with Elizea.
Admins happen to make mistakes (they're human after all), but it's indeed not always easy to judge a level.
however, respect your admins even when they do that, it's after all a volunteer job. OMG could easily bail on the game and then it would be as forgotten just like the rest of bonuslevel atm. But he isn't, he stays here and makes sure that blockoban, as his responsibility, still bursts with life. This easily makes OMG stand out as one of the better admins.

  Ehm hey everyone. I've been watching this discussion of where goes the line of acceptable and not-acceptable level for few days now.

The thing is, any level that gets accepted gets to the front page. It's not just "well, some people might find it fun". I'd like to point out, that if I ever saw a level I didn't find acceptable in any game, but knew some of the more hardcore fans of the game would like to see, I'd reject them and comment them. That way the level doesn't end up on front page but anyone who plays the game on a regular basis will find the level (of course you wouldn't be able to save your score, but still).

Tho, it is the admins choice in the end. While anyone can express their opinion about the level, there are different ways to do so. There is a difference between "This level isn't really good imo" and "Why would you accept this horrible level?!". As long as the discussion is kept polite and non-offensive, there is no reason to not have it on a public topic.

Also anyone who hasn't evaluated levels has no idea how hard it is. You might think it's easy to say what level is acceptable what isn't, but it's not. It's very easy to misjudge a level and just in general to draw a line between acceptable and non-acceptable levels.

I'd also like to thank everyone making levels for their work. It really makes me happy to see how active the Blockoban community is, even my activity here has decreased significantly. Also my thanks to OMG who has been spending a part of his free time evaluating levels here for so long (: You are awesome.

  i did it manually and i don't know how to put it online. i send you a pm.

  Oldmanrob, you made that excel list, have you done it manually or with some javascript? Could you possibly put it online?(with dropbox or such things)

  i'm at bonuslevel to have fun with. if i would go upset about the stuff here i would not came. some levels are unsatisfying, of course there are some but the majority aren't. i play "tedious" levels as hsf and have fun if i got the first place. i spent hours doing the packs and the excel list. but i had fun doing it. there are lot of unpleasant out there in the real world. so stop complaining about this little garden of virtual delights.

  The big difference between levels here and in an actual game is that levels have to be played one by one; not completing a previous level will make you unable to progress. Here, all of the accepted levels are optional.
You don't have to play them. the official levels are not allowed to be bad because they're technically the main campaign of the game.
Improving on your levels is needed of course, but you have to look it more on a user-standpoint than a global standpoint. If the first level of a user is mediocre at best, I would still accept him but tell him how to improve. If he makes his second level just as mediocre I will reject/to be edited it tho.
The only two exceptions to it would be if the user has made a decent amount of levels (at least ten) or if the concept has been done a lot. (As an admin on RT, I've seen so many Super Mario Brothers levels that I barely accept any.)

Of course if a level is bad or tedious then it shouldn't be accepted, but such things are entirely subjective and it feels like this argument is going nowhere.

  Yeah, you're totally right.

  I am so sick of the argument people are saying over an over, "If a level is bad or tedious just don't play it" Anyone who worked at a game company ever would be instantly fired for uttering this stupidity. What kind of standard is that, well guys we are about ready to release this new game and while 90% of it is just super high quality, we added some really boring, terrible content at the end, but don't worry only the people who want to play that part of the game will. Here is the freaking problem with that... how do you know it's terrible before you play it? Often only the last 10 moves in any given blockoban level are the moves that matter. So enough of this telling people not to play your levels if they don't like them, have a little pride in your work. I know no one is making off these Blockoban levels, but people are playing them, make your work quality for heavens sake. I am not sorry for being honest, the whole point of meeting people is so they can help you improve your own life. The friend that will tell you that you need to start taking care of yourself or improve a certain aspect of your life is 100x more valuable then the friend that will lie to your face and say you look good in that dress.

  yes it is.

  It Looks Similar (BLockoban) Possible?

  Well said, Toughman. Good to see getting some time for the game.
(At least for my tedious levels you can tell by the number of moves!)

  Concluding, I don't really believe it is a debate over the specific type of levels but rather a more general debate on which levels should be accepted or not. Having said that, I honestly trust our admins and their judgement so I am sure that all of them (but especially OMG who is one of the best in solving even impossible levels) will keep doing the excellent job they have been doing so far in order for all of us to keep enjoying this game.

  Dear fellow members of this community. Just noticed the debate that was brought up by OMG regarding the so-called 'controller' levels and I would also like to express my opinion which addresses not only about these type of levels but other types that are considered either too tedious (in moves) or have extremely many dummies or they are just a sequence of random moves. The way I see this game is that it is a strategy type of game and the reasons I have chosen to keep playing it (and of course I may not represent the majority for which i apologize) are in random order of preference a) the challenge in finding a solution, b) the effort in finding an optimum one, c) the quality of the game maintained by the members, the creators but most importantly by the Admins and d) the fact that I know there is a REASONABLE solution - even if sometimes you really need to think hard or for long to find it - in every level. This is a game where quality has always been the objective over quantity. As a member of this community I trust every admin and I follow its rules in order to be able to demand and receive the best possible service. And by service I mean the levels that are accepted which should not be levels that will eventually waste my time. I know we all have the option to play a level or not but when you start playing one you never know whether this is a challenging one or will end up in endless trial and errors before you manage to solve it. In that sense I count on the Admins to carefully and thoroughly review every level in order to save not just my time but all of us and accept only the levels that provide some key-basic quality to the game. Although I understand my friend's point that 'controller' type levels are not classic BB, I would still treat them as any other type of level but with a higher probability of them being rejected should they fail to meet any of the abovementioned criteria.

  the list it's not without errors. typos for sure. maybe some highscores have changed in the meantime or i mexed something.

  I really like the list, well done omr :) , but several categories seemed to be wrong (in the Puzzle It list), but it can also be that the importing from the excel document to open office messed it up (or I messed it up xD).

  for the hard-core-players: after months of work i completed a excel list with all the blockoban and puzzle it levels (name, highscore, category). you can use it to compare your scores. if you like one you can pm me an e-mail adress where i can send it or if you prefer you can ask me for mine. if you know how to use excel it's great stuff (i think).

  For me:
I don't rate, seriously
Cuz most levels are still too hard for me

  i'll put that too omr

for me:

5 great
4 good
3 bad
2 (rarely)
1 (rarely)

i don't really consider the age, or the skills. i consider the level itself.

  my votes are: 5 very good, 4 good, 3 ok, 2 unsatisfying, 1 bad.

sometimes i consider the age of the designer and his skill & experience too.

  In my opinion a level with a code is acceptable, as long as the code is an original type of code, never used in another level before. There is even an official one. Analysing block groups is one of several possible concepts, so I would reckon this as a code system: one is acceptable (maybe a sequel), but after that the concept is unoriginal and thus bad and rejectable.

  You're right, oldmtnguy. I and probably the other people misunderstood you. I have to agree, that we should keep the purity of Blockoban, but making some levels based on different concepts which aren't typical for Blockoban is not a problem. I really don't believe, that we'll only have other levels in future. The main part of the levels will still be classic :)

  I absolutely agree with Jyxz!

  I feel that I need to explain my thought process a little further. I am not attacking or have anything against controller or cipher-based games. I enjoy and play them in other places. In fact I play all types of mind games.
Blockoban however is a spatially oriented game which involves a different type of mind set and thought process. The level IQ Test (BLockoban) is an excellent puzzle, but it is not really a BLockoban level because there are no blocks or targets to move to reach a solution.The screen is there to provide a visual confirmation of your cipher solution. As an administrator, the reason I brought this up was to try to keep the purity of the BLockoban game and not to muddy the water of the level pool.
I really appreciate all your thoughts and comments and I am looking forward to hearing from more of you. After we complete this discussion, I intend to contact JP if he is not already aware and get his final opinion as the game's designer.
Thanks again to all of you contributors and players because it is your contributions and efforts that make this site what it is.

  I actually fully agree with Jyxz.
Blockoban is a puzzle game, it's intended to let you think. In my opinion, it doesn't matter what the concept of a Blockoban level is. It has to be well executed of course, but the level should make you start thinking and then you may be able to solve the level.

The level "IQ Test" by The_S is a great level in my opinion. I don't care if it's a controller level, because it's a great puzzle and it makes you think, and this is what a puzzle should do.

Linked blocks are a feature of Blockoban.
And I think that controller levels should belong to a game like this, because linked blocks allow you to do such concepts. It can be true that jp didn't intend such puzzles and it's true that these levels are not typical Blockoban puzzle levels, but they are puzzles and this is the only thing that matters. Blockoban is designed for clever levels and "IQ Test" is definitely one of it.

Levels of course have to be great in quality, but a controller level - if it's well executed - can also be a high quality level.

That's all I can say to this and even if I'm not a good Blockoban player, I have to mention that these levels should also belong to the game.

  That sounds reasonable to me :)

  Yes, my last level is a not standard blockoban level. It's just what tke title says: IQ test or part of it. No targets and you may need a pen and paper. I have two more levels (one of them not very good) but I did not uploaded them because I wanted to see scores and reaction to my first one. In my opinion few controller levels will not be a problem. I remember two and they were well made levels, something different. I suggest for the future only the realy extraordinary and high quality controler levels to be accepted, thus keeping their number low but still not fully excluding them.

  If you really want to avoid alzheimer, you should try to optimise your score, I think you'll train your brain a lot with that. Solving is a thing, but improving is another thing. Although I think controller levels should be kept, I like those levels. Although 'IQ Test' is still testing me. :)

  Jim, while I understand what you're saying, yes they don't take the same skills we have been developing playing other blockoban levels, I think you are forgetting the point of us coming here. Blockoban should be, and I think has been for a lot of us, challenging our minds in new and creative ways. Games like this have been proven to lower the chances of getting alzheimer's and to help delay the symptoms of those who have it. For a player like me, the levels that force me into completely new ways of thinking, the ones where I stare at the screen for 10 minutes before moving a block, are the reason I keep playing this game. Sifting thru hundreds, now thousands, of useless puzzles that present no new challenge, trick, or innovation is annoying. The levels you are attacking in your comment are the levels we should be applauding. Yes, not everyone is going to be able to solve them because they require a certain level of intelligence. Note: I know you are talking about The_S's latest level, which I have stared at for a long time, and haven't solved either. Sometimes there's just levels that not everyone is going to be able to solve, and these are the best kind of levels, not the worst. (Note: There are levels no one should be able to solve as we have proven in the past, and these are the worst.)